Structural Biases in Speed & Strength Development

In this episode of the Evolving Performance Podcast, Kevin is joined by Bill Hartman, a world-renowned physical therapist and co-owner of Indianapolis Fitness and Sports Training (IFAST). Bill is the creator of the Unified Health and Performance Continuum Model, a principles-based framework that examines how the entire human system works together to manage forces and create movement.

They explore how structural biases—an athlete's natural body type—fundamentally shape their potential to develop speed versus strength. Bill explains why certain structures gravitate toward specific sports, the trade-offs of training athletes without accounting for their build, and how to tailor exercise selection to individual biomechanics. The conversation also covers evaluating movement in pain-free athletes, using internal versus external coaching cues, and why "belly breathing" misrepresents proper diaphragm function.

This episode offers essential insights for coaches looking to individualize training and better understand the relationship between structure, movement, and performance.

Topics Include:

• Structural biases that favor speed versus strength development
• Why elite athletes in the same sport share similar body types
• How structure determines pressure distribution and force production capacity
• The "funnel" vs. "pillar" configurations and their performance implications
• Training trade-offs when working against an athlete's natural structure
• Exercise selection strategies for different structural archetypes
• Evaluating movement in athletes without pain or dysfunction
• When to use internal versus external focus in coaching
• Direct assessment of diaphragm function and breathing mechanics
• Why "belly breathing" constrains the thorax and limits movement quality
• Using strategic loading to magnify movement patterns and evolve motor control
• The role of sensory awareness in recapturing relative motion

📲 Connect with Bill Hartman:
Instagram: @bill_hartman_pt
Websites:
➡️ billhartmanpt.com
➡️ UHPC Model
➡️ RECON

📩 Contact Kevin:
Follow and suggest future guests, topics, and questions: @KevinNeeld
📺 Watch the videos: @NeeldPerformance
🧠 Subscribe to the free newsletter: KevinNeeld.com
📬 Email: KN@KevinNeeld.com

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction to Bill Hartman
02:00 – Ad read: Metabolic Elite
04:57 – Structural biases in speed vs. strength athletes
08:05 – Body types and sport selection
10:13 – Funnel vs. pillar configurations
12:07 – NFL combine data on structural ratios
14:09 – Tailoring exercise selection to structure
17:12 – Olympic lifting and structural considerations
19:08 – Recognizing structural constraints in training
21:15 – Hockey players and horizontal force application
24:25 – Pressure biases and exercise selection
28:53 – Extreme exhalers and training position
31:38 – Performance vs. structural restoration
36:08 – Movement screens for pain-free athletes
40:09 – Training environment and surface variability
45:18 – Long-term athletic development principles
48:55 – Biological vs. chronological age
53:04 – Growth mindset and continuing education
55:00 – Movement evaluation in pain-free athletes
57:32 – Breathing evaluation and relative motion
01:00:32 – Belly breathing vs. diaphragmatic function
01:01:50 – Connecting with Bill and the UHP Network

Transcript

00:00:00:10 - 00:00:03:09
Kevin: Welcome to the Evolving Performance Podcast.

00:00:03:11 - 00:00:33:23
Kevin: Today, I'm excited to welcome Bill Hartman as a guest on the podcast. Bill is a world renowned physical therapist and a co-owner, along with Mike Robertson, who was previously on the podcast, of Indianapolis Fitness and Sports Training, or IFAST, which was recognized by Men's Health as one of the top ten gyms in America. Bill's lifelong pursuit of self-improvement and efforts to continue pushing the fitness, performance and rehab industries forward led him to creating the Unified Health and Performance Continuum Model, which is a principles based

00:00:33:23 - 00:00:37:18
Kevin: reasoning framework for understanding and improving human movement.

00:00:37:20 - 00:01:02:19
Kevin: It expands upon traditional views by reconstructing movement from a first principles perspective grounded in science and human physiology, rather than focusing only on muscles and joints as separate parts. The UHPC model looks at how the entire human system, both internal and external, works together to manage forces, distribute stress, and create movement in response to the demands placed upon it.

00:01:02:21 - 00:01:31:19
Kevin: Bill is an in-demand speaker and consultant across the country and around the world to share his model and approach to restoring a pain free lifestyle to other health and fitness professionals. He regularly mentors physical therapy students and interns, many of whom have gone on to land positions in professional sport or become successful business owners themselves. In this episode, we discuss structural biases and how they contribute to an athlete's potential to develop and express speed or strength.

00:01:31:21 - 00:01:48:17
Kevin: The trade offs of training and how failing to recognize an individual's structural archetype or their build can cause training to have a negative impact on performance. Practical suggestions for altering exercise selection for athletes training in different environments, how Bill evaluates breathing

00:01:48:19 - 00:01:58:19
Kevin: and why "belly breathing" is a poor representation of diaphragm function, and using movement evaluations in individuals that don't present with pain.

00:01:58:21 - 00:02:21:12
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00:02:21:14 - 00:02:52:09
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00:02:52:11 - 00:02:59:07
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00:02:59:13 - 00:03:20:07
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00:03:20:09 - 00:03:50:03
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00:03:50:05 - 00:04:07:23
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00:04:07:23 - 00:04:16:02
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00:04:16:04 - 00:04:37:16
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00:04:37:22 - 00:04:53:22
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00:04:54:00 - 00:04:57:12
Kevin: Now, please welcome Bill Hartman to the podcast.

00:04:57:14 - 00:05:19:13
Kevin: Bill, it's great to have you on. Thanks so much for being here.

Bill: Well, thanks for having me. It has been forever, and so I was looking forward to this for quite a while.

Kevin: It's great. I think over the last several years, you've shared a lot of information about how an individual's structural biases allow them to be more successful in certain activities compared to others.

00:05:19:13 - 00:05:45:05
Kevin: And I think we all see that. You can look at things like offensive linemen in football or swimmers, and you see very similar body types across people that are competing at the highest levels. So maybe the best place to start here is can you describe some of the structural biases that may allow somebody to be more naturally fast and contrast that with somebody that's more naturally strong?

00:05:45:07 - 00:06:10:11
Bill: Okay. Well, we should probably define fast. So if we're talking about running speed, that's a little bit different than talking about, say, arm velocity in a baseball pitcher. They get their arms going at 9000 degrees per second. And if we're just talking about somebody that can cover some ground very quickly, all we have to do is start looking at the best of the best.

00:06:10:11 - 00:06:34:07
Bill: And so if you look at Olympic athletes, you're going to see very well defined structures because there is a favorable representation of structure in all of those events. You look at the sprinters, they're going to fall within, with minor exceptions, they're going to fall within a certain body type. If you had a shot putter standing next to a sprinter, I think you could probably tell the difference between the two.

00:06:34:09 - 00:07:08:07
Bill: Right? I think everybody sees that. But maybe they don't recognize the fact that those structures are not a byproduct of the training. It is the fact that this person gravitated towards this element of sport because their structure was ideal for it. You brought up the swimmer thing. And I've said this on a number of occasions, but if you watch Olympic swimming and they do the little intro thing where they pan the camera down the line, and it's like if they didn't have different color swim caps on with their flag on it

00:07:08:07 - 00:07:28:08
Bill: so you knew where they were from, you probably wouldn't be able to tell them apart because their structures are so similar. Because for that event there is a very specific body type that is ideal. You want this sort of triangular kind of a shape with these wide shoulders, small waist. And I wouldn't want heavy legs as a swimmer.

00:07:28:09 - 00:07:43:17
Bill: And so they are structurally designed to float. They've got a lot of surface area when they're on the water. They want to keep their body in the densest part of the water, which is that interface between the air and the water. And there's a certain body type that's going to allow that to happen.

00:07:43:23 - 00:08:05:11
Bill: You have the longer limbs, bigger hands, bigger feet, etc. because it promotes the ideal result. And so it doesn't matter what event or what sport that we're talking about, there's going to be a bias towards structure. If you're somebody that's fast now, so if we talked about again running speed,

00:08:05:13 - 00:08:30:04
Bill: you think about, okay, well what body type allows me to stay in the air longer? Because I know that if I can apply force over a very short period of time and then stay in the air longer, I am faster. And so this is what I would refer to as the funnel configuration where you have again the wider shoulders and smaller waist, because the energetic bias is upward, the pressure bias is upward.

00:08:30:04 - 00:08:49:00
Bill: And so that allows people to stay in the air longer, which contributes to their ability to run very fast. If you're talking about just force production, like absolute force production without a time constraint, then you want a structure that you could put a bunch of weight on, which again, from a configuration, this is going to be something that's going to be shaped like a pillar.

00:08:49:00 - 00:09:15:12
Bill: So I won't see the same tapering of structure. I would see something that would have more of a similar diameter throughout that structure because it is a higher force structure. It's less efficient as far as running across the ground, but it's also a higher pressure structure. And this is simple physics. You talk about the lift that picks up a car.

00:09:15:14 - 00:09:32:00
Bill: You have a small diameter over here where you're applying your force, and you got a larger diameter over here where it can actually lift, you know, pounds and pounds and pounds of car because of the pressure differential. It's the same thing on the human structure. You have a broader surface area that you're putting load on, you're going to have a higher pressure structure,

00:09:32:00 - 00:09:54:22
Bill: more capable of higher compressive loading versus somebody that would be in like a funnel configuration that has more of a shear based loading, which is going to allow for energy transfer over a long lever and over a very short period of time so that they can actually translate that to quick movement. So those are the major distinctions and there's so many nuances in there.

00:09:54:22 - 00:10:13:17
Bill: But really, those are the things to look at. It's like if your shoulders are larger than your pelvis, that's a good indicator that you're going to have a little bit more of that funnel shape. And if you don't have as much tapering, then you're going to have a little bit more of a powerhouse. They're not exclusive. And then that's the other part of the complication is that there's some blending obviously of all these things.

00:10:13:17 - 00:10:29:04
Bill: But if you're at the end of the spectrum, like I do work with Olympic weightlifters, and if you look at an Olympic weightlifter, which would be like maximum weight being expressed maximally fast. I mean, they have massive torsos and their hips are pretty broad.

00:10:29:06 - 00:10:45:18
Kevin: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting that you brought that up. I actually looked at this a while back when we were talking about it. Because one of the things that I was curious about was, you know, a lot of these structural archetypes, kind of the shoulder width to pelvis, like if you look at it from the front, sort of the pelvis width.

00:10:45:20 - 00:11:08:06
Kevin: And the other one that I thought would be interesting to look at was the biacromial width compared to the bi-iliac crest width. So looking at it from the front versus looking at it from the side. And I was trying to find data. I actually found a paper that looked at NFL combine athletes. So there's a nice big group, and they had measurements of these widths, and then body weight.

00:11:08:08 - 00:11:28:10
Kevin: And it's pretty amazing that when you just look at these things in isolation, the biacromial width alone explained like 60 some percent of the variance in total body weight. So it's a really good indication of just sort of overall mass. And then when you added the bi-iliac crest, it got even better. So you had like two measurements that were explaining like 70% of the variance.

00:11:28:10 - 00:11:48:00
Kevin: And that's because the bigger the widths, the bigger the individuals. And so I started playing around with the ratio of the biacromial width to the bi-iliac crest width, and it was an almost perfect correlation. And I can't remember if it was positive or negative, but it was almost a perfect correlation with the 40 yard dash time.

00:11:48:02 - 00:12:07:03
Kevin: And so, like you said, the wider the shoulders are relative to the pelvis, the more leaning toward speed these guys were, and then it had a very strong negative correlation with like the bench press. So like the ratios that were really high were predisposed to moving faster and lifting less on the bench press. And then the lower ratios were the reverse.

00:12:07:05 - 00:12:14:05
Bill: Exactly. And that's so that's exactly what we would expect to see. Right? That's exactly what we would expect to see. And again,

00:12:14:07 - 00:12:33:19
Bill: you could look across any sport at the elite levels and you're going to see the same thing. Because if you want to know if you're going to have genetic potential to be successful in a given activity, that's where you'd start. It's like, you know, I see this all the time. You see these kids, they're like, you know, they're super skilled.

00:12:33:21 - 00:12:57:15
Bill: And they play hard and they got their head in the game and everything else. But they're built like basketball players and they're playing football. And it's just like, you know, they could be successful for a period of time. But as they level up, you're going to find that they're going to run into people that are built for the game. You know, it's a big deal. And, you know, that's why we see certain body types in certain positions.

00:12:57:15 - 00:13:22:16
Bill: You know, it's interesting. I find that when you get higher up in the echelons of a given sport, you actually get divergence in the body types. So what that means is that the top end speed guys are going to start to look even more like top end speed guys. And the power guys are going to look more like power guys, which is cool because now you can look at them and say, I think I know what your role on this team is because of what you look like.

00:13:22:18 - 00:13:43:21
Kevin: You know, and the work that you're talking about now is kind of taking it a step further and saying, well, if we have a better understanding of what these structures mean, and we can understand what the favorable structures are for a given task, you know, does it also influence how we should train them? Because they have certain, you know, I guess favorable or unfavorable mechanical positions.

00:13:43:23 - 00:14:09:05
Kevin: And so, you know, from a practical standpoint, how would you maybe think about adjusting exercise selection or even like exercise execution differently for people that are kind of on the extremes? So, you know, maybe somebody that fits more of that power profile, you know, would it be a different approach with exercise selection compared to somebody that fits more of that funnel or speed profile?

00:14:09:07 - 00:14:42:11
Bill: I'm going to give you a politician's answer. It depends, right? Because first we have to say, what is our intention? What are we actually trying to accomplish? So, for instance, I do work with Olympic weightlifters. If I'm an Olympic weightlifter, I want to know, like what is the ideal structure? And the ideal structure would be something that would have a broader, heavier pelvis, heavier legs, short femurs, because I want to be able to be in a great position to apply force, you know, be able to be in a really favorable position for that.

00:14:42:13 - 00:15:10:01
Bill: So if I'm working with that person, my exercise selection is going to be way different because my objective is for them to succeed at this sport. So I want to emphasize the things that allow them to be better in that sport. And so I would pick exercises that would reinforce the architecture that they need to be successful. Now, if that was a person that maybe didn't have the ideal structure for Olympic weightlifting and they were struggling with different elements of the Olympic lifts,

00:15:10:03 - 00:15:35:08
Bill: I would pick exercises that would allow them to get better at those lifts, which might actually be different than the exercises that I picked for the person that has the most ideal body type for that. So it's kind of a nuanced conversation. We always have to say, well, what's the goal? If somebody is a professional football player, I want them to play football better. And so this is why I actually started getting away from Olympic lifting with football players.

00:15:35:08 - 00:15:59:08
Bill: And I'm saying this very generally because I would recognize that if I had somebody that was actually, you know, built like an Olympic lifter and had success with that, I'm all for it. But a lot of times I would see these linemen, right? And if you're looking at the big guys that are trying to do the Olympic lifts, their hips are behind their shoulders. And so all they're doing is reinforcing an anterior shear strategy when they're taking those forces.

00:15:59:10 - 00:16:25:08
Bill: And I'm like, I don't want them to take that approach to the field. I want them to actually be able to exert force horizontally. And so I would rather choose things that emphasize that or reinforce that over what is conventional wisdom or a social proof that these exercises are ideal for power development. And so again, you have to kind of have an idea about like, if this person is going to play a sport, what does that sport require?

00:16:25:10 - 00:16:54:21
Bill: How do they interact with that sport from a structural perspective? And how does that alter the way that they're going to use their body in that sport? And therefore, what can I do to help them be better at those things? It's not cookie cutter at all. And so if you're training, you know, a group of elite athletes, it's like, you're going to have some people that are not going to do the same thing. You know, it is that important because you can see when people fall into compensatory strategies because they just don't have the body for it.

00:16:54:23 - 00:17:12:12
Kevin: Totally. And, you know, you mentioned Olympic lifting with big linemen. And that's an interesting example too, because I know we had this conversation, I don't know, it's got to be at least ten years ago at this point. But, you know, I made the argument that you take a 330 pound offensive lineman and you have him do a clean.

00:17:12:14 - 00:17:35:22
Kevin: And realistically, most of the time that's going to look like a reverse curl and a front squat. And the person's really just trying to get out of the way of the bar more than anything else. And for some of those guys, you know, they're just really uncomfortable in those positions. They have long femurs, the bar is out in front, they feel like they're going to fall forward. And so, you know, we ended up shifting to like a trap bar jump squat, or a sled push, or other things.

00:17:35:22 - 00:17:57:09
Kevin: And I think in some cases, you know, the argument was there's a learning curve component to it. But the other thing that I think that you were kind of touching on is that if this is supposed to be a speed strength exercise and you're doing it in a non-ideal position, you're also getting slower. And so the whole point of doing the exercise is actually violated by the execution.

00:17:57:11 - 00:18:23:04
Bill: Exactly. And, you know, I'm not saying that Olympic lifting is bad or anything like that. I'm just saying it's like if you recognize the structural constraints of the people that you're training, you can actually make better decisions for them individually versus trying to, you know, put everybody through a protocol that may or may not be favorable.

00:18:23:06 - 00:18:44:16
Bill: You know, here's the cool thing. When you understand these structures and you understand the mechanical advantages and disadvantages of these structures in different contexts, like when I bring an athlete in for an evaluation, before I do any testing, I can look at their structure and I can tell you what they're going to be able to do and what they're not going to be able to do.

00:18:44:18 - 00:19:08:14
Bill: And so, you know, it's because I understand that there is a structural relationship, you know, and that there are going to be things that they do well. There's going to be things that are going to be challenging for them. And if I hand them an exercise and they can't do it, is it reasonable to assume that's a deficit that needs to be corrected or is it just a structural artifact that I need to work around?

00:19:08:16 - 00:19:35:11
Bill: You know, I think it's more of the latter. And so, you know, when I was working with the Colts for about twelve, thirteen years, the strength coaches there were really good about this, that they wouldn't try to get these guys to do things that their structure didn't allow them to do. You pick exercises that allow them to do things that were productive in their body. And then when they can do those things really well, now you put them on the field so they can transfer that and they're actually better at what they do.

00:19:35:11 - 00:19:58:16
Bill: You're not trying to get them to do something that makes them look better in the weight room, but has no carryover. And so, you know, when you're trying to train to compete, the weight room is not the competition, you know, and so if you can be effective at helping them get the adaptation that they need so they can actually transfer that to what they need to do, you did your job.

00:19:58:18 - 00:20:22:05
Bill: You know, and I think that there was a period of time where we were so dogmatic about certain things that need to be done because we thought they were ideal that we kind of lost sight of the fact that people are individuals. And if you don't recognize their individuality, you're actually doing them a disservice. And so, you know, I've talked about this with hockey as well.

00:20:22:05 - 00:20:49:21
Bill: Like, you know, the body type for a hockey player is generally what I would say would be more of a powerhouse body type. They're, you know, they've typically got, you know, big torso, broader pelvis, heavier legs, which are great for accelerating, you know, through skating. But, you know, a lot of times I would see these hockey guys and they would put them through things like, you know, landmine presses, which are very vertical in nature.

00:20:49:23 - 00:21:15:11
Bill: You know, things that require these funnel shapes to do really well. And then the hockey players would have shoulder issues, you know. And I'm like, if you pick exercises that were more horizontal, that would be better for this architecture. And guess what? They play a sport that requires horizontal force application. They would be better off, you know, so it's recognizing, again, that these individual structures and how they interface with training and how they interface with their sport.

00:21:15:13 - 00:21:35:20
Kevin: That's a great example. And, you know, it also brings up, you know, you're making the distinction between, you know, certain pressing variations. So, you know, a landmine press is more vertical. And I think in a lot of cases, you know, it's sold as a great alternative to overhead pressing because it's, you know, kind of at an angle. So it's not as vertical as a strict press.

00:21:35:22 - 00:22:03:09
Kevin: But you're also saying, you know, you could do something that's purely horizontal, like a bench press or a push up or something. And I'm curious, so like if we're looking at it from the standpoint of which structure is better off for which variation, are you specifically referring to like where the load is being directed? Or is there like a positional component to that as well in terms of, like, are you looking at the person just from an upright standpoint or does it matter if somebody is, you know, standing versus on the ground?

00:22:03:11 - 00:22:28:20
Bill: Okay. So I'm definitely looking at the direction of force. But let's go a little bit deeper. When I say direction of force, I'm also recognizing that the energetic and pressure biases of these structures is important. So let's just say you have a couple of different structures. You know, we've got this funnel shape, which I've talked about. And this is an upward, outward person because they have an upward bias.

00:22:28:20 - 00:22:54:16
Bill: And so you would assume that the vertical things would be ideal. Then you have the powerhouses which would have a downward bias. So they would be better at kind of putting force down into the ground. And then you actually have a group of people that don't have a dominant vertical strategy at all. They have horizontal strategies, and they literally go forward and back. And so when you're recognizing how they move through space, if I had somebody that's built like a powerhouse and I'm putting them through vertical loading,

00:22:54:18 - 00:23:17:14
Bill: they have to manage that, and they're going to manage it based on their architecture. And so if they have a downward pressure bias and I put a vertical load on them, all I'm doing is emphasizing their downward bias. That's not favorable for them. If I have somebody that, you know, let's just say somebody that's one of these extreme exhalers because they fall into a certain category as well and they have more horizontal movement,

00:23:17:16 - 00:23:38:16
Bill: they should be on the ground, you know, period. Like, all of their training should be on the ground because that's where they're most stable. But if you take them and you put them upright, you're going to have somebody that's going to struggle because they're going to be very unstable in the upright position. So if you want them to actually be successful at what they do, you need to recognize that the orientation to gravity matters.

00:23:38:18 - 00:24:05:13
Bill: And the direction that you're trying to create force matters because it can either reinforce what they're good at or it can actually make them more unstable and put them at risk for creating compensation. And so, yes, it is definitely the upright versus supine, prone kind of a thing. But it's also is it vertical versus horizontal force? And that's why like if I have somebody that is one of these high pressure, downward bias people and I had them do, you know, horizontal pressing,

00:24:05:15 - 00:24:26:15
Bill: that's actually going to be very favorable because I'm not emphasizing the thing that's going to make them have more constraint. I'm actually allowing them to expand while they're creating force. Whereas if I had the funnel shaped people that want to expand more and I put them horizontal, I'm working against their tendency. They want to lift up away from the ground. And so that's going to be more challenging for them.

00:24:26:17 - 00:24:47:18
Bill: So these are the things that you recognize. And then you're like, okay, I can actually pick better exercises. You know, it doesn't take a lot. It just takes looking at them and say, do I have somebody that's got the shoulders bigger than the pelvis, you know? And the rib cage is bigger? Then I'm like, okay, probably more of an upward bias kind of a thing. If I've got somebody that's got that pillar structure, then I'm like, okay, they're going to be a downward bias.

00:24:47:18 - 00:25:06:23
Bill: I should keep things a little bit more horizontal. And, you know, I've got some other little tricks to determine the other types of people. But it's really, I think it's empowering when you actually look at this because now you can make better decisions for people. And you can also look at your roster and say, I think I know where this guy should be.

00:25:07:01 - 00:25:26:09
Kevin: Totally. And another thing that you brought up, you know, as you were going through that, you mentioned, you know, some of these extreme exhalers, that they're kind of more horizontal movers. And I'm curious how much that overlaps with people that are kind of more anteriorly positioned, where like their pelvis is behind their rib cage when they're standing upright.

00:25:26:11 - 00:25:53:06
Bill: Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, there's certain structures that would have more anterior translation of their center of mass. And, you know, when we look at that, this is where the extreme exhale would come in, because if you move forward in space, you're going to exhale. Right? And so if you're always kind of in that forward lean orientation to how you stand and how you move, they probably have lost some residual volume.

00:25:53:08 - 00:26:18:17
Bill: And so when we start to look at, okay, how do we want to put them in an environment where they're going to be most successful? Well, they don't do well upright. And so that's when we're like, okay, let's put you on the ground because you're more stable there. Now the question is, should we try to get them upright? And so, you know, when we talk about like structural restoration or something like that, it's like if you wanted to restore somebody's structure so that it was more representative of, you know, ideal,

00:26:18:19 - 00:26:40:22
Bill: then you would definitely put them in scenarios where they could get some air back, so they have more balance to their structure. And then maybe, maybe they'd be able to be upright and effective. But in the meantime, you definitely want to put them through scenarios where they're more stable. And that would be on the ground. And so, you know, when I talk about performance, it's like sometimes you're making concessions.

00:26:41:00 - 00:27:03:08
Bill: You're not trying to normalize their structure. You're trying to find out how do I get the best out of them right now? And if I'm putting them in an environment where they're stable and they can actually create good force, that's what I'm going to do. Now, if I have an opportunity to restore some of their structure so that they could be even better, well, that's certainly on the table, but I'm not going to compromise performance by trying to do that.

00:27:03:10 - 00:27:25:17
Kevin: It's a great point. And I think, you know, it also highlights the fact that the choice to, you know, quote unquote, fix something or work around it is really context dependent. And I think, you know, the big thing that stood out to me as you were going through that is, you know, if the person is performing well and they're not in pain, why would you try to change the thing that is contributing to that?

00:27:25:19 - 00:27:49:11
Kevin: And I think it's, you know, it's interesting because when I started in the field, everything was very corrective. Like, you know, you do a movement screen and if somebody couldn't do a specific pattern, you had to fix it. And I think over time, the message has gotten a little bit more balanced. And it's, you know, if the person doesn't have pain and they're not having any issues with it, maybe it's not actually something that needs to be corrected.

00:27:49:13 - 00:28:18:01
Bill: Right. And, you know, I think when we start looking at an evaluation or an assessment, we have to recognize, like, what is the context? Because if I bring an athlete in for an evaluation and they don't have pain, they're actually performing really well, and somebody tells me I need to do a movement screen. I'm going to say for what? Because if I'm going to do that movement screen and I find some things and I quote unquote correct those things, am I going to make them better or worse?

00:28:18:03 - 00:28:46:19
Bill: Right. And, you know, without having a very strong conviction that I am going to make them better by correcting those things, I'm not going to do it. And, you know, that's where we have to be very careful because sometimes the things that we perceive as deficits are actually just artifacts of the structure that allow them to be successful at what they do. And so, you know, when we're talking about somebody that's coming in with pain, that's different, right?

00:28:46:19 - 00:29:10:18
Bill: Because if they have a painful condition, it's likely that there is a mechanical issue that's creating that. And so we need to figure out, like, what is the mechanical relationship that's creating this painful condition? And then we have to resolve that. But if they don't have pain, I'm not going to try to normalize their structure. I'm going to try to make them better at what they do. And that might mean emphasizing the things that make them structurally unique.

00:29:10:20 - 00:29:37:21
Kevin: Yeah. It's a great point. And, you know, I think it also highlights the broader topic of trade offs in training. You know, so like you can't be amazing at everything. And I think a lot of times when people are new to training, they try to do everything. And, you know, it's like, well, I want to be strong and I want to be fast and I want to have endurance. And, you know, the reality is you have to make choices. And I'm curious, from your perspective, how do you think about trade offs?

00:29:37:23 - 00:30:04:16
Bill: Well, again, you know, we have to think about context. You know, if I have an individual that is, say, a desk jockey and they just want to be fit and healthy, you know, and they don't have any athletic aspirations, then I can do a lot of things. I can make them stronger, I can make them have more endurance, I can improve their cardiovascular health, I can do all those things because I don't have a specific performance outcome that I'm trying to emphasize.

00:30:04:18 - 00:30:33:07
Bill: But if I have an individual that is, say, a sprinter, and I know that they need to be fast, and I start putting them through a bunch of endurance training, I'm going to compromise their ability to be fast. And so I have to recognize that there are trade offs. And the trade offs are based on the adaptation that you're trying to create. You know, if you're trying to create a high force, high velocity adaptation, you're going to do things that emphasize that.

00:30:33:09 - 00:31:01:22
Bill: And you're going to avoid things that would compromise that. And so, you know, when we talk about like the interference effect, you know, where concurrent training of endurance and strength can compromise both. Well, it's because the adaptations are, to some degree opposing. And so if you're trying to maximize one, you have to recognize that you might be compromising the other. And so when I'm working with athletes, I always have to ask, like, what is the primary adaptation that we're trying to create?

00:31:02:00 - 00:31:30:08
Bill: And then everything else is secondary to that. And so if I have a sprinter, I'm not going to do a lot of endurance work. If I have a marathon runner, I'm not going to do a lot of heavy strength training. You know, I'm going to recognize that the primary adaptation is what we're emphasizing. And then we can do other things that are supportive of that, but we're not going to compromise the primary adaptation. And I think that's where people get into trouble, is they try to do everything and they end up being mediocre at all of it.

00:31:30:10 - 00:31:56:02
Kevin: Yeah. And I think, you know, to your point, there's also a dose component to it. You know, like, you can do things that, you know, maybe aren't your primary focus, but if you're doing them in a way that doesn't interfere with the primary focus, then it's not a big deal. But if you're doing them to the point where it's actually compromising the primary adaptation, then it becomes a problem. And I think, you know, that's where a lot of people get into trouble is they just don't recognize that there's a dose component.

00:31:56:04 - 00:32:28:07
Bill: Exactly. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, when we talk about like program design and understanding, like, what are we trying to accomplish? You know, if I have somebody that's, you know, in a strength power sport and I want to make sure that they have some level of cardiovascular fitness, I'm not going to have them go out and run five miles. I'm going to have them do something that is going to be more supportive of their primary adaptation. So maybe it's sled work, maybe it's prowler pushes, maybe it's, you know, some interval work that's short in duration.

00:32:28:09 - 00:32:54:08
Bill: But I'm not going to have them do something that's going to compromise their ability to produce force at high velocities. And so, you know, I think that's where the art of coaching comes in is recognizing, like, what is the primary adaptation? What are the things that we can do that are supportive? And then what are the things that we need to avoid because they're going to compromise what we're trying to accomplish? And I think that's a really important distinction that a lot of people miss.

00:32:54:10 - 00:33:18:00
Kevin: Totally. And, you know, I think it also highlights, you know, the importance of understanding what you're trying to accomplish and being intentional about it. Because I think a lot of times people just kind of go through the motions and they're not really thinking about, like, what is the purpose of this exercise? What adaptation am I trying to create? And, you know, if you're not clear on that, then it's really hard to make good decisions about what to do.

00:33:18:02 - 00:33:42:16
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, when we talk about like exercise selection and program design, it's like every exercise should have a purpose. And if you can't articulate the purpose of the exercise, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. You know, and I think that's where a lot of people get into trouble is they just kind of throw exercises into a program because, you know, they saw somebody else do it or, you know, they read it in a magazine or whatever.

00:33:42:18 - 00:34:12:17
Bill: But they don't really understand, like, what is the purpose of this exercise? How does it fit into the bigger picture of what I'm trying to accomplish? And so, you know, I think that's a really important skill for coaches to develop is being able to articulate, like, why am I choosing this exercise? What adaptation am I trying to create? And how does it fit into the overall program? And if you can't answer those questions, then you probably need to rethink what you're doing.

00:34:12:19 - 00:34:38:06
Kevin: Yeah. It's a great point. And, you know, I think it also, you know, it brings up the idea that, you know, sometimes the best exercise is the one that the person will actually do consistently. And, you know, I think there's a tendency to, you know, overthink things and try to find the perfect exercise when in reality, you know, if somebody is going to be more consistent with something that's, you know, maybe not the absolute optimal choice, but it's good enough, that's probably better.

00:34:38:08 - 00:35:08:05
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, the art of coaching really comes in is recognizing, like, what is this person capable of? What are they willing to do? And then, you know, how do I get the best out of them within those constraints? You know, because at the end of the day, the best program is the one that they'll actually do. And so, you know, if I have somebody that, you know, they hate barbell back squats, I'm not going to force them to do barbell back squats.

00:35:08:07 - 00:35:33:10
Bill: You know, I'm going to find something else that accomplishes a similar adaptation that they're willing to do. And so, you know, I think that's where, you know, being dogmatic about certain exercises or certain methods can actually be counterproductive because you're not recognizing the individual in front of you. And so, you know, I think it's really important to be flexible and to recognize that there's more than one way to accomplish a goal.

00:35:33:12 - 00:35:58:00
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, you brought up a really good point about, you know, being dogmatic. And I think, you know, one of the things that I've noticed over the years is that, you know, people tend to get really attached to certain methodologies or certain approaches. And, you know, they kind of lose sight of the fact that, you know, the method is just a tool. And, you know, the tool should serve the goal, not the other way around.

00:35:58:02 - 00:36:24:10
Bill: Exactly. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, when we talk about like evidence based practice, you know, a lot of people think that that means, you know, just following the research. But in reality, evidence based practice is the integration of the best available research with clinical expertise and patient values and preferences. And so, you know, it's recognizing that the research gives us a starting point, but it doesn't tell us what to do with the individual in front of us.

00:36:24:12 - 00:36:52:19
Bill: And so, you know, I think that's where clinical expertise comes in is being able to take the research and say, okay, how does this apply to this person? And then recognizing that the person's values and preferences matter. You know, because at the end of the day, if they're not bought into what we're doing, they're not going to do it. And so, you know, I think it's really important to recognize that evidence based practice is not just about following the research. It's about integrating the research with everything else that we know.

00:36:52:21 - 00:37:18:18
Kevin: Yeah, it's a great point. And, you know, I think it also highlights the fact that, you know, a lot of the research that we have is done on populations and, you know, it gives us averages. But, you know, when you're working with an individual, they may or may not respond the way the average person responds. And so, you know, you have to be able to adapt and adjust based on what you're seeing with that individual.

00:37:18:20 - 00:37:44:22
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, the skill of being a good coach or a good clinician is being able to recognize when something's working and when it's not. And then being willing to adjust. You know, because I think a lot of times people get married to a plan and they're like, well, this is what the research says we should do. So we're going to do it regardless of what we're seeing. And that's not good practice.

00:37:45:00 - 00:38:12:16
Bill: You know, good practice is being able to recognize, okay, this is what I thought was going to happen. This is what's actually happening. How do I adjust? And so, you know, I think that's a really important skill for coaches and clinicians to develop is being able to be flexible and adaptable and recognize when things aren't going according to plan and being willing to change course. Because at the end of the day, you know, our responsibility is to the person in front of us, not to the method or the research.

00:38:12:18 - 00:38:39:15
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, that also brings up, you know, the idea of, you know, what are the markers that you're using to determine whether something's working or not? And, you know, I think a lot of times people get really focused on, you know, specific metrics. And, you know, while metrics are important, I think there's also a lot of value in just, you know, observing how somebody moves and, you know, getting their subjective feedback about how they're feeling.

00:38:39:17 - 00:39:12:15
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, when we talk about like outcome measures, you know, there's objective outcome measures and there's subjective outcome measures. And both are important. You know, the objective outcome measures tell us, you know, are they getting stronger? Are they getting faster? You know, whatever the metric is. But the subjective outcome measures tell us, you know, how do they feel? You know, are they moving better? Do they feel more confident? You know, all of those things matter.

00:39:12:17 - 00:39:42:09
Bill: And so, you know, I think it's really important to not discount the subjective piece because, you know, at the end of the day, if somebody feels better and they're moving better and they're more confident, even if the objective measures haven't changed that much, that's still a win. You know, and so I think it's really important to recognize that both pieces are important and to not discount one for the other. And, you know, I think a lot of times in our field we get so focused on the numbers that we forget about the person.

00:39:42:11 - 00:40:09:19
Kevin: Yeah, that's a great point. And I think, you know, it also brings up the idea that, you know, sometimes the things that matter most to the person are not the things that we can easily measure. And, you know, I think being attuned to that and recognizing what's important to them is, you know, is a big part of being a good coach. You know, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about, you know, training environment. Because I know you've talked about this before.

00:40:09:21 - 00:40:36:10
Kevin: And, you know, the idea that, you know, where you train and, you know, what the environment is like can influence, you know, the adaptations that you get. And I'm curious, you know, from your perspective, how do you think about training environment and, you know, how do you use that as a tool to, you know, influence the adaptations that you're trying to create?

00:40:36:12 - 00:41:04:11
Bill: Well, you know, I think when we talk about training environment, there's a couple of different ways to think about it. One is the actual physical environment. You know, are you training indoors? Are you training outdoors? You know, what's the surface that you're training on? And then there's also the social environment. You know, are you training by yourself? Are you training with a group? You know, what's the energy like? And both of those things can influence the adaptations that you get.

00:41:04:13 - 00:41:31:19
Bill: You know, from a physical environment standpoint, you know, I think one of the things that's really interesting is, you know, the surface that you're training on can influence the adaptations that you get. You know, if you're training on a very stable surface like, you know, a weight room floor, you're going to get different adaptations than if you're training on an unstable surface like, you know, grass or sand or, you know, whatever it might be.

00:41:31:21 - 00:42:00:10
Bill: And so, you know, I think it's really important to recognize that the environment that you're training in is going to influence the adaptations. And so if you want somebody to be able to perform in a variety of environments, you probably need to expose them to a variety of environments in training. You know, if you only ever train them in a perfectly controlled weight room environment and then you put them on a field, they might not be as effective because they haven't been exposed to that variability.

00:42:00:12 - 00:42:29:18
Bill: And so, you know, I think it's really important to think about, like, what is the environment that they're going to be competing in? And how do I expose them to that in training? And then from a social environment standpoint, you know, I think there's definitely research that shows that, you know, training with other people can enhance performance. You know, whether it's through competition or through social facilitation or, you know, whatever the mechanism is.

00:42:29:20 - 00:42:57:02
Bill: And so, you know, I think it's really important to recognize that the social environment matters as well. And so, you know, if you want to get the best out of somebody, you know, putting them in an environment where they're training with other people who are pushing them and challenging them can be really beneficial. And so, you know, I think it's important to think about both the physical environment and the social environment when you're designing training programs.

00:42:57:04 - 00:43:24:12
Kevin: Yeah, that's a great point. And, you know, I think it also brings up the idea that, you know, there's a specificity component to it. You know, if you're going to be competing on grass, you probably should train on grass at some point. And, you know, I think a lot of times people, you know, they get so focused on the weight room that they forget that, you know, the weight room is just a tool to help them be better at their sport. And, you know, at some point you have to actually practice the sport in the environment that you're going to be competing in.

00:43:24:14 - 00:43:55:09
Bill: Exactly. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, the concept of transfer is really important. You know, because at the end of the day, you know, we're not training people to be good at training. We're training them to be good at their sport. And so, you know, if the adaptations that we're creating in the weight room don't transfer to the field or the court or wherever they're competing, then we're not doing our job. And so, you know, I think it's really important to always be thinking about, like, how does this transfer?

00:43:55:11 - 00:44:23:15
Bill: You know, and I think that's where, you know, the specificity principle comes in is recognizing that, you know, the more specific the training is to the demands of the sport, the more likely it is to transfer. And so, you know, while we can do a lot of things in the weight room that are beneficial, at some point, you know, we have to get them into the environment where they're going to be competing and make sure that those adaptations actually transfer. And if they don't, then we need to adjust what we're doing.

00:44:23:17 - 00:44:49:16
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, that also brings up, you know, the idea that, you know, there's a balance between, you know, creating general adaptations that are going to be beneficial across a wide range of activities and creating specific adaptations that are going to be beneficial for a very specific task. And, you know, I think early on in somebody's development, you probably want to focus more on the general adaptations. And then as they get more advanced, you probably want to shift more towards the specific adaptations.

00:44:49:18 - 00:45:18:08
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, the concept of long term athletic development comes in. You know, where you recognize that, you know, early on, you want to create a broad base of physical literacy and general physical preparedness. And then as they get more advanced and they start to specialize in a sport, then you can start to get more specific with the training. But, you know, I think a lot of times people try to specialize too early.

00:45:18:10 - 00:45:45:22
Bill: And, you know, they miss out on the opportunity to develop that broad base of physical literacy that's going to serve them well throughout their athletic career. And so, you know, I think it's really important to recognize that, you know, early on, we want to expose them to a lot of different movements, a lot of different environments, a lot of different activities. And then as they get older and they start to specialize, then we can start to get more specific with the training.

00:45:46:00 - 00:46:10:24
Kevin: Yeah, it's a great point. And, you know, I think it also highlights the fact that, you know, there's a developmental component to this. And, you know, what's appropriate for a, you know, a twelve year old is very different than what's appropriate for a, you know, a twenty five year old professional athlete. And, you know, I think recognizing where somebody is in their development and, you know, tailoring the training to that is, you know, is really important.

00:46:11:02 - 00:46:40:15
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, the art of coaching really comes in is being able to recognize, like, where is this person in their development? What are they ready for? What are they not ready for? And then, you know, how do I progress them appropriately so that they're continuing to develop and improve without pushing them too far too fast and either burning them out or injuring them?

00:46:40:17 - 00:47:10:08
Bill: You know, and so I think that's a really important skill for coaches to develop is being able to recognize where somebody is developmentally and then tailoring the training to that. Because, you know, what's appropriate for one person might not be appropriate for another person even if they're the same age or the same, you know, competitive level. You know, everybody's different. And so, you know, I think it's really important to recognize the individual and tailor the training to them.

00:47:10:10 - 00:47:33:24
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, that also brings up the idea that, you know, chronological age and biological age are not always the same. And, you know, I think recognizing that and, you know, being attuned to where somebody is from a biological standpoint is, you know, is probably more important than just looking at how old they are.

00:47:34:02 - 00:48:02:08
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, understanding things like, you know, maturation and growth and development is really important. Because, you know, you can have two kids that are both fourteen years old and one of them is, you know, fully mature and the other one hasn't hit their growth spurt yet. And, you know, the training that's appropriate for one is not going to be appropriate for the other. And so, you know, I think it's really important to understand where somebody is from a biological standpoint.

00:48:02:10 - 00:48:31:15
Bill: And, you know, there's ways to assess that. You know, whether it's through, you know, looking at peak height velocity or, you know, maturity offset or, you know, whatever the method is. But, you know, I think it's really important to have some understanding of where somebody is biologically and not just assume that, you know, because they're a certain age that they're ready for a certain type of training. Because that's not always the case.

00:48:31:17 - 00:48:57:21
Kevin: Yeah, it's a great point. And, you know, I think it also brings up, you know, the idea that, you know, there's a window of opportunity for certain adaptations. And, you know, if you miss that window, it's not that you can't get the adaptation, but it might be harder. And, you know, I think recognizing when those windows are and, you know, trying to take advantage of them is, you know, is probably beneficial.

00:48:57:23 - 00:49:25:21
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, the concept of sensitive periods comes in. You know, where there are certain periods in development where somebody is more sensitive to certain types of training. And, you know, if you can take advantage of those periods, you can get better adaptations. Now, that doesn't mean that if you miss those periods that you can't get the adaptations later. It just might take longer or it might be a little bit harder.

00:49:25:23 - 00:49:55:07
Bill: But, you know, I think it's really important to recognize that, you know, there are optimal times for certain types of training. And if you can take advantage of those, that's great. But if you can't, it's not the end of the world. You can still get the adaptations. It just might take a little bit more time and effort. And so, you know, I think it's important to be aware of those sensitive periods but not to be overly dogmatic about them and think that, you know, if you miss that window, that's it, you're done.

00:49:55:09 - 00:50:19:16
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, that's a good message for people to hear because I think a lot of times, you know, people get really anxious about, you know, oh, I missed this window or, you know, I didn't do this at the right time. And, you know, the reality is, you know, you can still make progress. It's just, you know, you might have to be a little bit more patient or, you know, you might have to work a little bit harder. But, you know, it's not the end of the world.

00:50:19:18 - 00:50:48:06
Bill: Exactly. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, having a long term perspective is really important. You know, because I think a lot of times people get so focused on, you know, the short term that they lose sight of the long term. And, you know, athletic development is a long term process. You know, it's not something that happens overnight. And so, you know, I think it's really important to have patience and to recognize that, you know, it's a journey and there's going to be ups and downs along the way.

00:50:48:08 - 00:51:15:21
Bill: But, you know, as long as you're making progress and moving in the right direction, that's what matters. And so, you know, I think it's important to have that long term perspective and not get too caught up in, you know, the day to day or the week to week fluctuations. Because, you know, over the long term, if you're doing the right things, you're going to see progress. And that's what matters.

00:51:15:23 - 00:51:40:04
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, that's a great message. And, you know, I think it's something that, you know, coaches need to hear as much as athletes need to hear. Because I think, you know, there's a lot of pressure on coaches to, you know, get results quickly. And, you know, the reality is, you know, good training takes time. And, you know, you have to be patient and trust the process.

00:51:40:06 - 00:52:09:11
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, having a strong philosophy and understanding, like, why you're doing what you're doing is really important. Because, you know, if you're confident in your approach and you understand the principles behind what you're doing, then you can be patient and trust the process. But if you're just kind of, you know, throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks, then you're going to be anxious and you're going to be constantly second guessing yourself.

00:52:09:13 - 00:52:38:15
Bill: And so, you know, I think it's really important to have a strong foundation and understanding of, like, why you're doing what you're doing. And then you can be confident in that and trust that, you know, over time, you're going to see the results. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, continuing to educate yourself and, you know, understanding the principles behind training is really important. Because that's what gives you the confidence to stick with your approach even when, you know, results aren't coming as quickly as you'd like.

00:52:38:17 - 00:53:04:20
Kevin: Yeah, that's a great point. And, you know, I think it also brings up the idea that, you know, education is a lifelong process. And, you know, just because you, you know, got a degree or, you know, got a certification doesn't mean that you're done learning. And, you know, I think the best coaches are the ones that are constantly, you know, seeking out new information and, you know, trying to refine their approach and get better.

00:53:04:22 - 00:53:33:15
Bill: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's where, you know, having a growth mindset is really important. You know, recognizing that, you know, you don't know everything and there's always more to learn. And, you know, being open to new ideas and being willing to challenge your own assumptions. You know, I think that's what separates, you know, the good coaches from the great coaches is that willingness to continue to learn and evolve and grow.

00:53:33:17 - 00:54:03:08
Bill: And, you know, I think it's really important to not get stuck in your ways and think that, you know, you've got it all figured out. Because the reality is, you know, the field is constantly evolving and there's always new research coming out and there's always new ideas. And so, you know, I think it's really important to stay curious and to continue to educate yourself and to be open to new perspectives. Because that's what's going to allow you to continue to grow and improve as a coach.

00:54:03:10 - 00:54:29:08
Kevin: Totally. And I think, you know, that's a great message. And, you know, I think it's something that, you know, I try to embrace as well. You know, I want to shift gears again and talk a little bit about, you know, movement evaluations. Because, you know, I think this is something that, you know, you've talked about before. And, you know, the idea of, you know, when do you use movement evaluations and, you know, what are you looking for?

00:54:29:10 - 00:55:00:11
Kevin: And I'm curious, you know, from your perspective, you know, in somebody that doesn't have pain, you know, what role does a movement evaluation play? And, you know, what are you actually looking for when you're evaluating somebody's movement?

00:55:00:13 - 00:55:24:18
Bill: Well, you know, I think when we talk about movement evaluation in somebody that doesn't have pain, the first question we have to ask is, like, what's the purpose? You know, because if they're not in pain and they're performing well, you know, what are we evaluating for? And so, you know, I think there's a couple of different contexts where a movement evaluation might be useful even in somebody that doesn't have pain.

00:55:24:20 - 00:55:47:03
Bill: One would be, you know, if you're trying to understand their movement strategy so that you can tailor their training to be more effective. You know, so understanding, like, how do they move? What are their biases? You know, what are the things that they do well? What are the things that are more challenging for them? So that you can pick exercises that are going to be more effective for them.

00:55:47:03 - 00:56:05:03
Bill: Right. And it's like there are contexts where the internal becomes infinitely more important. Like when we're talking about recapturing relative motions, it's like there is sensory awareness that has to be available to allow us to do that. And this goes back to when I was talking about the state dependent responses. It's like that's very strongly an internal representation.

00:56:05:03 - 00:56:38:17
Bill: This is the internal movement vocabulary that has to be evolved so they can sense certain things. And then when they sense certain things, they can know that they are being effective in their recapturing relative motion. When we talk about projection away from us, now we're talking about a lot more performance related types of activities. And this becomes very external in that circumstance. If there are ever situations where we need somebody to recognize something that maybe they can't sense, so this is where we use strategic loading to actually magnify the current strategy to make them aware.

00:56:38:17 - 00:56:59:19
Bill: And so now we actually help them evolve their movement vocabulary. So for instance, it's like if I had somebody that was using a spinal compensatory strategy as a substitution for hip internal rotation, real simple way to resolve that is do a suitcase carry. And they will sense it right away because they will feel the asymmetrical element of load that goes through the trunk and the hip.

00:56:59:19 - 00:57:32:17
Bill: And that allows them to recognize that, you know, oh, now I understand. But I also have evolved a KPI for myself because now I take them into a scenario where I'm using a stronger internal representation for them to recapture motion. Now we go back to the suitcase carries, my KPI, and then I can recognize that the movement is different, but they can also sense that the movement is different, because now they're going to be sensing something entirely different. If you're successful, I want to wrap up by talking about breathing.

00:57:32:19 - 00:58:01:07
Kevin: You know, I think that it's a topic that has certainly hit the mainstream awareness as far as people have heard that they're supposed to be breathing using their diaphragm, which is often used interchangeably with belly breathing, unfortunately.

Bill: You're right. Yes.

Kevin: So, you know, when you're evaluating breathing, what are you looking for? And then can you talk a little bit about, you know, the negative consequences of people hyper focusing on this idea of belly breathing?

00:58:01:09 - 00:58:31:06
Bill: Boy, okay. So here's the cool thing. True restful tidal breathing is also representative of the space within which we have the greatest relative motions. So if I can expand and then exhale in a relaxed manner, and I have full access to relative motion, I could measure that through the extremities. When we start to use compensatory breathing strategies, we start to recruit greater degrees of superficial musculature, which would typically be associated with moving through space versus just breathing.

00:58:31:06 - 00:58:57:17
Bill: And so when they become accessory exhalation muscles, the increase in the concentric orientation of those muscles are actually going to constrain ranges of motion. So my extremity measures tell me right off the bat whether I have somebody that has the capacity to breathe without constraint. And so that's what I'm following as we're going through process. If our intention is to recapture relative movement, which is why breath gets superimposed over so many activities,

00:58:57:17 - 00:59:21:08
Bill: the thing you want to recognize is that the breathing strategy that you're going to use is very contextual, right? So if I'm in the purple room and I'm working with somebody that might have a painful condition and we're like, our total focus is on the recapture of the best representation of relative motion, we're definitely going to be superimposing a breathing behavior that's going to be associated with restoring that tidal volume.

00:59:21:08 - 00:59:42:08
Bill: And in doing so, we immediately see the extremity ranges of motion change. Again, this goes back to our state dependent behaviors. Right. If we have a scenario where force is involved, then obviously this is going to be a much more constrained scenario, and it's going to be more of an exhalation based because we can't produce maximum force while we inhale.

00:59:42:10 - 01:00:08:20
Bill: And so you always know that you're going to have somebody that's going to be biased through that. All that said, if we would need to determine the behavior of, say, the diaphragm, there's a series of tests that you could use. One would be literally a direct measurement of the diaphragm's behavior, which is something that you can learn very easily. And there's an expansion test that you can use to let you know that you're getting the circumferential expansion of the abdominal cavity.

01:00:08:22 - 01:00:32:22
Bill: There's a way to determine whether somebody is an extreme exhaler because they lose residual volume and that affects their neck motion, things like that. If we would need to measure that directly, when you're talking about belly breathing, so this is the intentional expansion, the intentional expansion of the abdomen while constraining the, it would be like people say they're constraining their chest.

01:00:32:22 - 01:00:50:07
Bill: It's actually that you're constraining the upper thorax. I was trying to think of a time where this would be desired, and I would imagine if an elephant was sitting on your chest, then you would want to be able to belly breathe, right? Because that would give you the space to actually change pressures and take some air.

01:00:50:12 - 01:01:10:05
Bill: As far as like a health or performance related strategy, I wouldn't recommend it. And I can't think of a circumstance that would recommend it because of the constraint of the thorax. And again, constraining the thorax increases the concentric orientation of superficial musculature, which is the greatest interference to our extremity ranges of motion. So I wouldn't recommend that. Is it diaphragmatic?

01:01:10:07 - 01:01:30:14
Bill: Yes, in most circumstances. But now you have to say, it's like okay, if the belly pushes out that force, like you know, why does it do that? Well, one of the reasons is because you're creating this top down gradient of compression from the thorax, and you actually have to shorten the distance between the ribcage and the pelvis so that there's enough extensibility in the abdomen under that circumstance.

01:01:30:14 - 01:01:50:08
Bill: So all you're doing is reinforcing an undesirable compressive strategy in most circumstances.

Kevin: Well, I can't thank you enough for doing this. This was awesome. You know, certainly gave me and everybody listening a lot to think about. You know, just to wrap up, where's the best place for people to connect with you and to learn from you?

01:01:50:10 - 01:02:13:09
Bill: The only place. How about that? So I'm really old, as we talked about before. I'm really old. And so I have taken everything in my life, and I put it in one place, and that's the UP Network. And so they can just go to UP Network, and that's where I do all of my work. And you can join for free.

01:02:13:09 - 01:02:38:06
Bill: There's, oh my gosh, we got free courses up there. We've got articles, we've got podcasts, we've got conference calls. All that stuff is accessible for free. And then we have for the more ambitious, we have the plus side network where we really get in depth with a lot of the things that we were actually discussing today, and then some. And that's where I do everything.

01:02:38:06 - 01:02:45:02
Bill: It's the easiest place to find. So it's UHP dot network.

Kevin: You made that easy for everybody. Yeah. Thanks again Bill.

01:02:45:02 - 01:02:54:02
Bill: It's been great to talk. It's great to see you.